Irritating that it happened...
I've read Jack, and I've read Denny.
I can see both sides on this one. Not everyone knows how to channel their rage into cold, calculating, brain over brawn strategy. Their actions may not have personified the American ideal, but they were human.
Yes, we do strive to be more than that. They know that. That's why they know that they can get to us by refusing to let this go. That more than annoys me.
Meanwhile, nobody wants to talk about the most recent car bombing or the latest innocent American hostage who was abducted....because they're still so friggin excited that THE AMERICANS FUCKED UP!
…That’s not supposed to happen. No, it’s not. But we’re not robots. We can’t program our men in uniform to respond to stimuli in the same way time and time again.
It's like a bunch of rotten kids who are in trouble all the time, but one day they catch dad letting out a string of cuss words….and it’s all over. Dad will never live it down. Not to defend Dad for losing his cool – he shouldn’t have – but consider just how much crap dad must’ve put up with before he did. Everyone has a breaking point.
We weren't there. We don't know how much English those guys knew or how they were electing to use it.
They could have been taunting the prison guards in hopes that they might persuade them to compromise their integrity.
…Or the guards could have simply been a bunch of defective, perverted assweeds.
No, there's no excuse for it either way. Neither is there an excuse for our crap-brained, self-serving media.
If the general population were no better than the media, I’d be ready for another flood.
Good Point...Well Said!!!!!!
It is interesting to me that, in my opinion, everyone is "somewhat right" and "somewhat wrong".
Very touchy situation. Know what I mean?
If we hold ourselves up as "defending and promoting democracy and human rights" we do indeed have to be BETTER than everyone else, to the point of being IMMACULATE, not "well, Saddam tortured thousands, we only did some humiliating things to a few".
Think about it. If we are going to have the arrogance to proclaim that our way of life is better than everyone else's, then we have to prove it every day in every way. Not by trying to mitigate these horrific acts by saying "well, they were provoked". Saddam was "provoked" by those who wanted him out of power. Were they wrong in wanting him out of power? We say "No", but he said "Yes". We are now saying those who oppose us are wrong. The calculus of morality is mighty fine in these cases, and we need to be very careful if we are going to claim the high ground.
Jack: We do have to maintain a higher standard than the rest for allt he reasons you state. But when was the last time you heard an occupying army/state apologize for the wrongdoing of a few misguided and poorly led soldiers? When?
I'll tell you - never.
What does that say about our way of life and morality?
I agree with Jack, Jesse. The point about the apology is a good one though, particularly considering the fact that the Administration was advised against it.
I make no attempt to excuse the behavior. But in my mind, it helps to know "why."
When my husband fucks up royally and then apologizes, that's all well in good. But that doesn't nullify my need for an explanation. I still want to know, "HOW COULD YOU?!"
I think that has been my mind-set this week. I've been trying to figure out, "How could they?"
Were they just friggin clueless? Did they have a partisan agenda? WERE they provoked? Or are they just fucking defective?
If we are to have any control over the prevention of these things in the future, the hows and whys have got to be answered.
Jack's right. We do have that arrogance. Let's have a reason for it.
Denny's right. We can handle this shit without media involvement. The leak needs to be shot.
Why am I not surprised that the blathering gasbag Hackworth was involved in getting those pictures to CBS? That fuckhead forgot what side he was on a long time ago.
I don't buy the excuse that the prisoners deserved what they got or that our troops just popped under pressure. The ones who did that crap weren't being shot at. They were undisciplined paper-shufflers and they should pay for their sins.
We are better than that. Hell, we HAVE to be better than that. We're Americans.
Well, for once Acidman, I agree with every word.
(I hope it didn't sound as though I was trying to make excuses for the guards. ...not the case, but wouldn't mind more info.)
Acidman is right...Hackworth is a piece of shit! All would do well to keep an eye on him and his "followers", for the foreseeable future. They're trouble. Brew it to their taste, so to speak.
I don't think they were friggin clueless...I don't think they have a partisan agenda. I don't think they were provoked. I DO THINK they are fucking defective, because the solution is education and the eminence of sensible thought, and the problem is the quality of education. Know what I mean?
Bottom line: we still have to deal with it.
Right you are, hon.
That would be the bottom line.
Just like toddlers...They may know better, but they shit their pants anyway, and then we gotta bust out the wet wipes. All the other guys might be better trained, but it only takes one dirty diaper to stink up the whole room.
"it only takes one dirty diaper to stink up the whole room."
Right you are, my friend!
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